Allah or Jesus?

This is one of those thought-provoking articles which I receive through email every so often. The subject is controversial, and may be a bit guilty of presenting a narrow perception of our Islamic brothers and sisters. It arguably has at least some grain of truth, though it comes out a somewhat combative and paints a negative stereotype of Muslims at the end. I mean, not all Muslims have extremist views, right?

I honestly don't know what to make of it.

It's not my intention to stir up a hornet's nest here (posts on religion seem to always do) but I do find religious discussion to be intellectually stimulating and highly informative, as long as one keeps an open mind, and is not too quick to render judgement on another's beliefs. With that, why don't you let me know what you think about the following article. Take note, I didn't write it. Someone named Rick Mathes did.

Allah or Jesus?
by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your email contacts.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well known leader in prison ministry.

Comments

Anonymous said…
That characteristic is not exclusive to Muslims though. It's on a case to case basis irregardless of religion.
TK said…
(Pre, with due respect, I think you have to mirandize everyone of us who will comment on mr. rick mathes' little story.)

I'm sure it is just an urban legend because IF the story were true, the imam would've responded with a "litanya" of atrocities committed by believers of the judeo-christian tradition: from the Crusades, Spanish inquisition, IRA bombings of civilians and the invasion by "BORNAGIN Christian" W. BUSH of third world countries that are barely out of the stone age.

The imam would have called the attention of mr. mathes about how God was displeased with King Saul because he failed to complete the ETHNIC CLEANSING of Palestine.

He would have quoted that part of Psalms that demanded for the innocent children of Israel's enemy... I'm not sure if it was edom?... to be CRUSHED in the rocks below high cliffs.

I'm not defending the Muslim faith for the simple reason that I can't. I'm not one of them. I don't know if murdering those who don't conform with their religious beliefs is Allah's pre requisite to Salvation. All I know is that this list of Jehovah's children believe in Murdering unbelievers:

King Saul,
David Koresh,
Ruben Ecleo,
Pat Robertson (He suggested that the cia should "take out" Hugo Chavez recently)

I have a feeling that the Islamic faith is like christianity and all faiths based on the judaeo-Christian tradition in the sense that it is composed of a spectrum of believers as diverse (and sometimes as loony) as the list above.

All I know is that even those who read the bible chronically anathemize each other because they have different conclusions as to its meanings (ADD VS INC)

All I know is that when a Christian and a Moslem Father pray to God to Save their Children in the ICU, Only one God will answer their prayers. Sometimes both children are saved, sometimes only one. But when the life of a child is at stake, do you think God would care if the Father would call him Allah or Jesus?

I HAD the right to remain silent but I did not use it. If it's really too obnoxious, If anyone is offended I'd understand if you just delete the crap I just said. Blog mo 'to. and religious wars are messy.
Unknown said…
I suggest you take this with a grain of salt. Here are a couple of links that contextualize Mathes' encounter - the Moslem wasn't an imam at all, but an inmate who was asked to join after no imam could be found.

Other people present did not remember any such exchange - from "jihad" to "hanging his head in shame" - taking place.

Since the inmate was not an Islamic official nor a recognized expert in the religion, kinda defeats the point Mathes makes, huh?

I'm curious - why weren't you as skeptical about this email as you were in your excellently-written Khaos blog entry?
Ronald Allan said…
TK: Yeah, religious matters are messy. Regardless of what side you take, you are bound to antagonize someone sooner or later.

You're probably right in saying that every religion has its spectrum of followers, from the sublime to the extreme.

As for "mirandizing," I guess it goes without saying that everyone has a choice on whether to leave a comment (even a potentially offensive one) or not to any of the posts. Ever since I started on this blog a year ago, I've been aiming at a target audience...how do I say this...on a somewhat higher than average intellectual plane. Its not that I consider myself "high brow" or anything, the reason for this is so I can also learn a thing or two from the comments I receive. And your comments, even mickeytymoc's comment s below, are excellent examples of how successful in a way my efforts have been. Not only are your comments sensible, they speak a side of the issue that I may not have encountered before. And for me that is always a good thing.

And besides, I'm not the type of blogger who takes what people say against them. That would ruin the essence of blogging - a free flowing exchange of ideas. Of course, if I disagree, I'll just present my counterarguments. And anyone who disagrees can do the same.

If someone is concerned about the repercussions of their comments, they can always comment anonymously, like our friend, the first commenter above. But after several months of correspondence in this blog and where else, somehow I don't think you're the type to hide behind his comments, no matter how controversial. And of course I mean that in a positive way. :-) In fact, it was one of your comments from several months ago that piqued my interest in the history of the inquisition and of the crusades. And while we may have gotten a lot more civilized then, there is still a lot of religious discord to think about.

Thank you for your insights TK, you've helped me a lot without realizing it.

Now I'm still researching a previous commenter's comments on geocentrism I want to do justice to that topic, and I won't be able to do it without having the appropriate background information.

I guess you see how this blog helps me as well. I'm not about to give away all sorts of ideas without getting any in return. :-)
Ronald Allan said…
mickeytymoc: Thanks for the links. I honestly didn't know what to make of the article at the start, but it became clear to me after viewing the links you provided. I intend to make a follow up post to this article citing as reference those links. Its the least I can do to balance this issue.

As for being skeptical, I am. That's why I was soliciting feedback from anyone generous enough to offer theirs. Thanks for your comments, they were very helpful and informative.

As for the Khaos thing, you may or may not agree with me, but it is much easier debunking a concept based on hard science than debunking one based on faith. The laws of science for the most part are fixed and stable, and with uniform interpretation. Faith, on the other hand, is an entirely different thing. A hundred different people could have a hundred different views over a single religious belief. To even attempt to do so, especially without any background information, would be a disservice to those who read this blog on my part.

Thank you for your positive comments on the Khaos post, I hope you found it useful. :-)
Unknown said…
RonAllan: Would you mind reposting your response to my comment? It seems to have truncated in the middle. Thanks. :-)
Unknown said…
Ek, scratch that last comment. Funny, your response was truncated in the page i viewed, but here on the comments page it comes out nice and clear. :-)
Ronald Allan said…
snglguy: My thoughts as well. It's one thing to be intolerant of others beliefs, but to actually advocate violence?

CL: Thank you for the astute analysis . It was very informative, especially the translations. I'll repost this again if you don't mind, so others can learn from it too. :-)

micketymoc: Glad you were able to visit again. :-)
TK said…
Tnx pre. Actually, I stick around for the occasional girlie… este… visceral pictures (Debbie Gibson et al) the didactics are icing on Quaere’s cake. You, and most of your blogmates, should get an agent. NYTIMES who bought about.com is looking for people like you guys.

and ofcourse it's because of the fact that the massive size of this blog seems to warp the space-time continuum, Cerebral chicks with kick ass bods get sucked into it. Where these girls are that’s where you’ll find me… until my wife finds out ofcourse.
Ronald Allan said…
I have another "visceral" post in my drafts list. I haven't gotten around to posting it because for some unexplained reason, my posts are being taken seriously. :-) While that of course is a good thing, reverting to posting visceral eye candy may jinx it. :-)

Nah...I'll still post it. :-) Watch out for it. As usual its another singer who eventually posed for Playboy again. :-)

Yeah, hot women do seem to be able of altering time and space...time slows down and you get sucked in by the gravity...:-)

Wish they would drop by, though. :-)

Popular posts from this blog

Commonwealth Ave. lot for Lease

Is aspartame safe?

Peddling Snake Oil - The Khaos Super Turbo Charger